Blood Cult Design Document

[Terkala]

Blood Cult v2.0 design document, now with a full description of the blood cult design, and MIT approval for all of the code used in the implementation of the Blood Cult.

[0-Anon]

A small note is that creating holy water isn't chaplain-specific currently and anyone with a bible can mass-produce it, but that would be a minor tweak.

MIT approval already done is sick as hell, really exciting stuff

[Princess-Cheeseballs]

A small note is that creating holy water isn't chaplain-specific currently and anyone with a bible can mass-produce it, but that would be a minor tweak.

MIT approval already done is sick as hell, really exciting stuff

Ideally the chap isn't central to roundflow so anyone with a bible being able to make holy water is fine imo.

[Terkala]

Ideally the chap isn't central to roundflow so anyone with a bible being able to make holy water is fine imo.

Yeah, on Funky you can order a Religious Supplies crate with Holy Water too, and anyone can make holy water there as well. All 20ish rounds of testing were done on Funky.

[keronshb]

I'll def take a look since I'm def interested in Cults (Planning on getting Clock Cult in if both Wizard and Blood Cult are solid).
I'm definitely considering starting a Cult workgroup once we can.

[Terkala]

@keronshb The newest version of the code itself is here if you want to take a look:
funky-station/forky-station#17

It's funky's attempt to re-base off Wizden by re-implementing Funky's features with the new action system. Ideally starting from MIT, hence why I put in the time to port it as far as I have.

[PotatOverlord]

The file should have the markdown file extension, and also use kebab-case (blood-cult.md), and also be mentioned in the summary file.

[SolventMercury]

I think giving the Chaplain a role to play against supernatural threats is a good idea, but I think Chaplain might need more to protect them if we start introducing corporeal threats to their safety. The document's combat discussion focuses almost entirely on how the cult weapons fare against the Chaplain, and on how holy weapons work on the cult, but what's missing is that it fails to do more than allude to how standard weapons work in the mix. Specifically, it sounds like the cultists could just make baseball bats and jump the Chaplain as a team, a threat which is compounded by the way the chapel typically gets mapped - in a lot of stations, it's one of the most isolated parts of the map, and often right at the edge of the station (not to mention Fland's chapelroid, which is practically its own smaller station). It'd also benefit from discussing more about how standard weapons like guns would fare against cultists, and what counterplay the cult might have in that situation, given that the cult is supposed to push for a nukie-level final confrontation.

Also, deconversion mechanics are only really alluded to, please flesh that out and explain in greater detail what that process looks like.

[Mot2332]

Watch out, this last comment is very specific balance concerns for a design document, as long as the design view is clearly explained, contributors can expand on it.

Something along the lines of "the chaplain is meant to be a challenge for the cult to overcome" or "the final ritual is supposed to be a grand confrontation" is enough for a design document.

If in practice the chaplain isnt working as intended, or the finale is really underwhelming, then a contributor can point to this document, make a PR that changes something, and it's all good !

[Terkala]

but I think Chaplain might need more to protect them if we start introducing corporeal threats to their safety

That's the same conclusion Funkystation came to, and is a reason why that server has improved chaplain options for their blessed item. Though there are also Cosmic Cult present there, so it's more than one antagonist causing this balance change.

Also, deconversion mechanics are only really alluded to, please flesh that out and explain in greater detail what that process looks like.

Deconversion works in a variety of forms, almost all involving holy water.

1. Mindshield someone. The mindshield instantly breaks the blood cult conversion, and makes it harder for the blood cult to re-convert (it takes them some time, and more people to do, and requires the cult to be further along for it to even be possible).
2. Holy water drinking. Restrain someone and force them to drink 50u of holy water, and they'll decovert
3. Splashing with holy water, which requires quite a lot (to make backpack sprayers not massively effective). Splashing requires about 200u of holy water.
4. Holy Water Smoke. When holy water contacts unholy blood, it creates a smoke effect. The smoke naturally carries the holy water, and that can deconvert someone in the same contact method of splashing or drinking. If someone is standing on about 10-20u of unholy blood, and a bucket of holy water is thrown at them, it'll deconvert a room-full-of-people.

Part of the design is is wanting to make the scene of "Chaplain discovers cultists, throws holy water at them, cultists all scream and flee" to be the mechanically-encouraged result of that. And it makes thematic sense.

[SolventMercury]

Watch out, this last comment is very specific balance concerns for a design document, as long as the design view is clearly explained, contributors can expand on it.

I'm asking about fundamental interactions that are central to the proposed gamemode. I'm not critiquing DPS numbers or something, I'm asking for a runthrough of what's supposed to happen in combat. This doc is going into individual abilities and resources, so I think asking for some detail on that is appropriate for the current scope of the discussion.

Part of the design is is wanting to make the scene of "Chaplain discovers cultists, throws holy water at them, cultists all scream and flee" to be the mechanically-encouraged result of that. And it makes thematic sense.

So, to be clear, the Chaplain's holy water directly harms cultists on contact? That's a perfectly valid answer to the aforementioned "Guys with bats" problem I mentioned, you just neglected to mention that the Chaplain could use that as a weapon against them in the doc itself. If you could add that (and any other holy weapons you intend to give the Chaplain, besides his already implemented bible thwump) to the doc, that'd be fantastic. I was going off the standard of wizden chaplain who has jack and shit to defend himself with getting jumped by 3 tiders, since you only mentioned he'd have a resistance to the blood cult's magic weapons. Likewise, if you could just clarify in the doc "Blood Cultists are deconverted by being exposed to holy water or forcibly injected with a mindshield implant" that'd be satisfactory.