Add CAD (Tryon 1995) #1478

arubehn · 2025-08-19T00:33:05Z

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This PR adds the concept list used in the Comparative Austronesian Dictionary to Concepticon.

arubehn · 2025-08-19T01:39:34Z

@LinguList is there a way of explicitly referencing that this list is derived from Buck-1949-1110? I know this was discussed at some point, but I don't know if a workflow was established in the end.

LinguList

This looks nice. We must have a thorough review of the mappings, where you should find somebody to double-check them quickly. What I would ask for is: change the header for ORIGINAL_ID to BUCK_1949_1110, as we do also in the list by Castro-2010-511.tsv. Plus, check my answer on your question in the comment.

LinguList · 2025-08-26T01:15:12Z

concepticondata/conceptlists.tsv

 Schauenburg-2015-858	Schauenburg, Gesche and Ambrasat, Jens and Schröder, Tobias and Von Scheve, Christian and Conrad, Markus	2015		858	ratings	German	German	https://doi.org/10.3758/s13428-014-0494-7	Schauenburg2015		This list contains ratings of valence, arousal, potency, authority and community for 858 German words. Participants were native German speakers recruited through university mailing lists.	720-735
 Janschewitz-2008-460	Janschewitz, Kristin	2008		460	ratings	English	English	https://doi.org/10.3758/BRM.40.4.1065	Janschewitz2008		This list of 460 English taboo, emotionally valenced, and emotionally neutral words was rated for frequency, inappropriateness, valence, arousal, and imageability by 78 native-English-speaking college students.	1065-1074
-Tryon-1995-1310	Tryon, Darrell T.	1995		1310	questionnaire	English	Austronesian languages	https://doi.org/10.1515/9783110884012	Tryon1995		This list comprises 1310 basic vocabulary items, extending the impactful 1110-items list by (:bib:Buck1949) by 200 items that are particularly relevant to Austronesian peoples.
+Tryon-1995-1310	Tryon, Darrell T.	1995		1310	questionnaire	English	Austronesian languages	https://doi.org/10.1515/9783110884012	Tryon1995		This list comprises 1310 basic vocabulary items, extending the impactful 1110-items list by (:bib:Buck1949) by 200 items that are particularly relevant to Austronesian peoples.


@arubehn, we reference lists directly, if they are linked, by using [1110-item list of Buck (1949)](:ref:Buck-1949-1110), if that list exists. You have (xxx) without the preceding [xxx] here anyway.

alzkuc

Hey! I have just gone through the mappings and left a few comments.

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T11:29:32Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-119	02.550	COUSIN	1643	COUSIN	Buck-1949-1110-80
+Tryon-1995-1310-120	02.560	ANCESTORS	1669	ANCESTORS	Buck-1949-1110-81
+Tryon-1995-1310-121	02.570	DESCENDANTS	490	DESCENDANTS	Buck-1949-1110-82
+Tryon-1995-1310-122	02.610	FATHER-IN-LAW (of a man)	1055	FATHER-IN-LAW	Buck-1949-1110-83


You specify FATHER/MOTHER-IN-LAW (of a woman) as the concept FATHER/MOTHER-IN-LAW (OF WOMAN) but do not do the same for FATHER/MOTHER-IN-LAW (of a man). Perhaps you could specify for the male counterpart as well? This would result in using 2255 FATHER-IN-LAW (OF MAN) instead of 1055 and 2257 MOTHER-IN-LAW (OF MAN) instead of 1050.

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T11:32:52Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-123	02.611	FATHER-IN-LAW (of a woman)	2254	FATHER-IN-LAW (OF WOMAN)	
+Tryon-1995-1310-124	02.620	MOTHER-IN-LAW (of a man)	1050	MOTHER-IN-LAW	Buck-1949-1110-84
+Tryon-1995-1310-125	02.621	MOTHER-IN-LAW (of a woman)	2256	MOTHER-IN-LAW (OF WOMAN)	
+Tryon-1995-1310-126	02.630	SON-IN-LAW (of a man)	1056	SON-IN-LAW	Buck-1949-1110-85


This is similar to the previous case. However, you are best familiar with the dataset, so you have to decide whether the specification makes sense here. If yes, 2267 SON-IN-LAW (OF MAN) and 2265 DAUGHTER-IN-LAW (OF MAN) are available.

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T11:38:14Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-146	02.960	THEY	817	THEY	
+Tryon-1995-1310-147	03.110	ANIMAL	619	ANIMAL	Buck-1949-1110-97
+Tryon-1995-1310-148	03.120	MALE (adj.)	2263	MALE (OF ANIMAL)	Buck-1949-1110-98
+Tryon-1995-1310-149	03.130	FEMALE (adj.)	2262	FEMALE (OF ANIMAL)	Buck-1949-1110-99


Does the author specify that it only relates to animals? A broader term is available, in case it fits better: 1551 FEMALE

Yes, although the glosses are not really clear. Compare 03.120 MALE (adj.) (referring to animals) to 02.230 MALE (more general or referring to humans).

The author unfortunately does not really clarify the glosses, so some of it is guesswork based on the context and the reference list by Buck. I am actually considering now whether the first instance (02.230) should rather be mapped to MALE (OF PERSON), but right now, it is not exactly clear to me what the elicited forms mean (and what not).

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T11:42:19Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-191	03.594	DOVE	1853	DOVE	
+Tryon-1995-1310-192	03.596	OWL	735	OWL	
+Tryon-1995-1310-193	03.610	DOG	2009	DOG	Buck-1949-1110-137
+Tryon-1995-1310-194	03.614	RABBIT	1190	HARE	


there is a better concept available: either 1136 RABBIT or 2345 LEPORID (RABBIT OR HARE)

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T11:45:39Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-201	03.654	GILL	1916	GILL	
+Tryon-1995-1310-202	03.655	SHELL	598	SHELL	
+Tryon-1995-1310-203	03.661	SHARK	1110	SHARK	
+Tryon-1995-1310-204	03.662	PORPOISE, DOLPHIN	1479	DOLPHIN	


does the word provided in the dataset refer to dolphin only?

Not sure. The way I understand it, however, is that a porpoise is a type of dolphin. So I would assume that the elicited terms will mostly, but not necessarily refer to a purpoise (but can also refer to a dolphin more broadly) - that's why I mapped it to the broader term DOLPHIN.

A slight tangent alert: Initially thought so too, but it turns out that that is not the case. They look very similar, but only share the order (toothed whales). They are parts of two different families. Is there a way you can determine which fits better for this list? If not, it is up to you which you find more likely, or you could always go for WHALE, as that is the broader concept covering both DOLPHIN and PORPOISE.

(@LinguList I will later update the concept definition on Concepticon for both Dolphin and Porpoise to be more accurate)

Thanks for digging that up, @alzkuc , you are absolutely right :) unfortunately, the data source does not allow me to better understand what exactly was elicited here. It is conceivable that many languages do not strictly differentiate between dolphins and purpoises (thinking of the older German "Tümmler" which was used to refer to dolphins "großer Tümmler" and porpoises "kleiner Tümmler").

This would technically mean that the correct concept would be PORPOISE OR DOLPHIN (or maybe DELPHINOID?), as a union of these two concepts. What should we do about that?

Yes, the most accurate solution would be to introduce a broader concept which covers both Porpoise and Dolphin, e.g. DELPHINOID, to which you then map.

You can now map it as the new concept: 4074 DOLPHIN-LIKE WHALE (DOLPHIN OR PORPOISE)

Done, thank you!

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T12:05:43Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-426	05.420	BREAKFAST	1322	BREAKFAST	Buck-1949-1110-278
+Tryon-1995-1310-427	05.430	LUNCH	768	LUNCH	Buck-1949-1110-279
+Tryon-1995-1310-428	05.440	DINNER	1833	DINNER (SUPPER)	Buck-1949-1110-280
+Tryon-1995-1310-429	05.450	SUPPER	1833	DINNER (SUPPER)	Buck-1949-1110-281


This is a tricky one, because the difference between the two words (Supper and Dinner) is largely regional in English. Does the language distinguish between the two?

If not, I think you could only map it once and leave the other one unmapped.

I'm not sure about this one. Many elicited forms seem to be identical anyway. In the original list Buck-1949-1110, both concepts are mapped to DINNER (SUPPER) as well, so I thought this would be the best way to proceed here as well.

In those cases where the forms do differ, it seems like DINNER refers to a slightly larger or more formal meal than SUPPER. However, the difference seems to be very subtle.

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T12:10:02Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-568	07.580	ARCH	876	ARCH	
+Tryon-1995-1310-569	07.610	MASON	877	MASON	
+Tryon-1995-1310-570	07.620	BRICK	1006	BRICK	
+Tryon-1995-1310-571	07.630	MORTAR	1731	MORTAR BINDER	


Does this refer to the paste and not the utensil?

Once again, a case where the author uses the exact same gloss twice (in 05.580 and 07.630) without any disambiguation. But it is clear from the context that this instance refers to the paste (and the other one to the utensil).

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T12:17:59Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-629	08.850	BANYAN	346	BANYAN	Buck-1949-1110-442
+Tryon-1995-1310-630	08.910	SWEET POTATO	159	SWEET POTATO	
+Tryon-1995-1310-631	08.912	YAM	410	YAM	
+Tryon-1995-1310-632	08.920	TAPIOCA, MANIOC, CASSAVA	925	CASSAVA	


Manioc and Cassava are names for the exact same root, correct (name depends on the region)? So this is a more general question for another time: should we merge these two concepts into one, e.g. CASSAVA or MANIOC (Or just CASSAVA and mention Manioc as an alternative name in the description)? (927 MANIOC in fact currently has 0 links in Concepticon, Cassava has 44.) @LinguList

Yup, that's the reason why I mapped it to CASSAVA, not MANIOC.

One could argue that the ideal mapping for this gloss would be TAPIOCA OR CASSAVA, but I didn't want to introduce new concepts at this point.

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T12:25:00Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-865	12.330	TOP	1753	TOP	Buck-1949-1110-667
+Tryon-1995-1310-866	12.340	BOTTOM	690	BOTTOM	Buck-1949-1110-668
+Tryon-1995-1310-867	12.350	END	742	END (OF SPACE)	Buck-1949-1110-669
+Tryon-1995-1310-868	12.352	POINTED	2992	TIP (OF OBJECT)	Buck-1949-1110-670


perhaps 372 POINTED?

alzkuc · 2025-08-26T12:37:52Z

concepticondata/conceptlists/Tryon-1995-1310.tsv

+Tryon-1995-1310-1302	22.310	HEAVEN	1565	HEAVEN	Buck-1949-1110-1094
+Tryon-1995-1310-1303	22.320	HELL	878	HELL	Buck-1949-1110-1095
+Tryon-1995-1310-1304	22.350	DEMON (evil spirit)	1973	DEMON	Buck-1949-1110-1098
+Tryon-1995-1310-1305	22.370	IDOL	3205	GRAVEN IMAGE	Buck-1949-1110-1100


1945 IDOL? But again, up to your judgement based on the dataset.

I agree. In the original list by Buck, this item apparently elicited false idols (=graven images), hence the link, but this does not seem to be the case in this dataset.

arubehn · 2025-08-28T09:09:43Z

@LinguList everything should be addressed now - could you check again?

arubehn added 2 commits August 19, 2025 02:30

add Tryon 1995

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Merge branch 'master' into master

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LinguList requested changes Aug 26, 2025

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arubehn added 2 commits August 26, 2025 12:34

minor changes

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alzkuc requested review from alzkuc and removed request for alzkuc August 26, 2025 11:39

alzkuc self-assigned this Aug 26, 2025

alzkuc reviewed Aug 26, 2025

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arubehn and others added 5 commits August 26, 2025 16:00

fix some mappings

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add column for disambiguating identical glosses

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Merge branch 'concepticon:master' into master

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Add CAD (Tryon 1995) #1478

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arubehn commented Aug 19, 2025

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arubehn commented Aug 28, 2025

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