EG typo

[bcube2]

Hi,

in the https://www.cubinghistory.com/2x2/Methods/EG#eg2 section, there is "Gustavsson also stated that even before himself, Lucasz Cialon was the first he was aware of to have learned the method."

I believe his name is Lukasz with k instead of c. Or if you want to give his name in Polish, there are some special characters, as it can be seen here: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2005CIAL02

Also, while Kenneth indeed said that, and it had been reported by Ron as well here: https://www.speedcubing.com/events/po2005/polishopen2005.html (search for "We had Lukasz Cialon"), I remember that by that time Lukasz himself claimed to be using only CLL: https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/lukasz-cialon-2-98-avg-on-2x2.6251/#post-84012 - see also the original post of that thread.

[mjstraughan]

Updated with all of the new information. Thank you. Yet another method with a complicated proposal and development history.

[bcube2]

I am not absolutely sure about this being true: "As it turns out, Ciałoń had demonstrated the complete system of adjacent swap face, opposite swap face, and CLL in September 2005 during that year's Polish Open".

Another competitor from Polish Open 2005 (could be Ron, Lukasz or anyone else besides me) could verify it. One reason why Ron reported it that way could be that Lukasz was solving very fast with little pause between the steps at that time, making his solutions to be looking as being EG instead of CLL to an untrained eye - I suppose Ron wasn't using CLL at that time.

For instance, I am absolutely sure Josef was using CLL at that competition as well. I remember him telling me at that competition he is using his algorithms from Waterman (3x3x3) method - therefore not being optimized to the 2x2x2 cube. Yet Josef's solving time was relatively longer in comparison with Lukasz's, one reason being longer recognition time in general, another possible reason being not using optimized 2x2x2 algorithms, and last but not least his turning speed being slower than Lukasz's.

If assuming both Josef and Lukasz were using the same method, it might look as they are using different methods to an untrained eye.

P.S. I also remember discussion with Josef, me asking him (as a more experienced cuber) what method is Lukasz using (2x2x2 used to be my main around 2005, it must have been at Polish Open 2005 because that is the only competition I met both Lukasz and Josef). Josef answered: "Lukasz is using the same method as me" and then explained how CLL is working. What I didin´t ask is whether he asked Lukasz personally, or made that decision based on witnessed solves by Lukasz (which, in theory, could all be made with CLL).

[mjstraughan]

Searching the Yahoo groups, I found another mention by Ron. This time it is more detailed, with him specifically saying that he asked Lukasz what method he was using. There are a couple of additional interesting messages.

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[bcube2]

Well, some details might have been lost in translation - Lukasz was young in 2005. Of course all details in Ron´s post might be correct as well.

I guess reconstruction of his solves on youtube proves nothing if all solves are CLL, but might prove another method being used if not all solves are with CLL (unlikely when he was saying in the speedsolving.com thread he is using only CLL, plus it is not the point of this discussion if it turns out he was using EG in 2008).

I guess the difference between Lukasz and Josef here: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/PolishOpen2005/results/all?event=222 proves nothing.

[mjstraughan]

It seems to be pretty strong evidence that Lukasz was at least experimenting with the idea when we have two people saying the same thing. Ron describing various ideas that he heard and Kenneth also saying that he knew of Lukasz using what is now called EG. We could ask if Kenneth learned of this through Ron's webpage and not directly from Lukasz, but the idea still made it's way out there from that situation and eventually to Gunnar and Erik.

[bcube2]

I get your point so go ahaed and close this issue if you believe that "As it turns out, Ciałoń had demonstrated the complete system of adjacent swap face, opposite swap face, and CLL in September 2005 during that year's Polish Open" is true.

I am not saying it is false, I am not just persuated yet (but my opinions are not important after all). If I wanted to be persuated, I would try to contact Lukasz directly - it seems he has a linkedin profile, someone from Polish community could have his e-mail address, I could try also this: https://www.speedcubing.com/records/recs_cube_222av.html

[mjstraughan]

I will try to contact him. Would be great to have it cleared up whether he described EG1, EG2, and L5C to Ron, or if Ron somehow misheard.

[mjstraughan]

I talked to Ron and he said that he is sure that the communication between him and Lukasz was clear. I haven't been able to get in contact with Lukasz though. He accepted my LinkedIn connect request, but hasn't read my message. I asked Ron if he had contact info, but Ron didn't respond to that part. I asked Erik, and also made a post in the Cyoubx's Friends Facebook group a month ago.